[00:00:00] Latest and Greatest in David Roberts Word Regarding Health and Wellness: Cold Therapy, Exercise Routines, and Staying Healthy: Exploring Personal Wellness Practices

[00:05:25] Discovering Sulforaphane: A Multi-Benefit Compound and How It Entered the Spotlight

[00:07:46] The Journey Behind Stabilized Sulforaphane: A Personal Mission and Groundbreaking Discovery

[00:13:22] Understanding Sulforaphane Supplements: Myths, Mislabeling, and Its Powerful Health Benefits

[00:19:10] Sulforaphane and Detoxification: Understanding Its Role in Complete Detox and Benzene Studies

[00:22:19] Stabilized Sulforaphane: Combining Whole-Food Benefits with Advanced Supplementation

[00:23:52] Comparing Sulforaphane and Glutathione for Detox: NRF2 Activation and Lasting Benefits

[00:26:06] Glyphosate’s Impact on NRF2 Activation and How Broccoli Can Help Counteract It

[00:28:24] Heavy Metal Detox: Comparing Sulforaphane to Other Detox Methods Like EDTA and Cilantro

[00:30:22] Sulforaphane’s Anti-Inflammatory and Antioxidant Power: Addressing Inflammation and Oxidation Naturally

[00:34:50] Sulforaphane and Brain Health: Boosting BDNF and Enhancing Dream Activity

[00:37:50] Sulforaphane’s Anti-Pathogenic Properties: Antibacterial and Antifungal Effects

[00:39:24] Sulforaphane and Cancer Research: Exploring the Science and PubMed Studies

[00:42:36] Should Sulforaphane Be Taken Daily or Cycled? Navigating Long-Term Use and Detox Needs

[00:46:57] Sulforaphane Shelf Life: Storage Tips for Maintaining Potency Over Time

[00:48:32] How Heat and Moisture Affect Sulforaphane: Tips for Cooking and Storage

[00:49:40] Maximizing Sulforaphane in Broccoli Sprouts: Best Harvest Time and Seed Quality Concerns

[00:52:57] Sulforaphane vs. DIM for Estrogen Dominance: Understanding Their Different Roles

[00:54:18] Zeolite and Other Detox Methods: Importance of Clean Sources and Covering All Bases

[00:56:24] Capsules vs. Liquid Sulforaphane: Dosage, PITC Synergy, and Tolerability

[00:59:25] Taking Sulforaphane: Food, Nausea, and Adjusting Dosage for Tolerability

[00:01:37] Expanding Beyond Sulforaphane: Addressing Bioavailability with Curcumin, Quercetin, and More

[01:04:19] Testing for Detox Progress: Recommendations for Monitoring and Microbiome Checks

[01:05:55] Lab Tests, Oxalates, and Future Conversations on Health Molecules

[00:00:00] Latest and Greatest in David Roberts Word Regarding Health and Wellness: Cold Therapy, Exercise Routines, and Staying Healthy: Exploring Personal Wellness Practices

Ryan Sternagel: David, the traditional first question for you as folks are logging on here—you’re not allowed to talk about sulforaphane or broccoli sprouts in your answer! What’s on your mind when it comes to staying healthy these days? Have you been implementing anything new into your routine, or found out about something you forgot and thought, “I gotta do more of that?” Or maybe different ways of looking at things? What rabbit holes have you been going down lately?

David Roberts: First would be cold dipping. I’m in Charlottesville, Virginia, and with the weather still being cold, I don’t have a… I have a trash can. It’s a seasonal cold dip, but it’s been 42°F or less, sometimes 45°F or less, depending on what paper you read, where the magic happens. But it’s been a discipline because you feel so good afterward, but you also have to face putting your body in the water, and it’s always this daily, “Okay, is this worth it?”

But Ryan, I have this business that’s growing fast, and it’s been a struggle to exercise regularly. It’s always on the daily list, but then I get dragged into a meeting, and before I know it, the day’s gone. I was talking to a friend of mine about seed oils because she likes to bake with canola oil. I told her, “That’s so bad for you.” But she knew I hadn’t exercised, like, maybe once that week. She said, “You’re talking about seed oils, but shouldn’t you focus on your exercise?” And I thought, “We should do both!” But that was the smack in the face I needed, and I’ve been exercising six days a week ever since then.

Something else—I’m a swimmer. I like to swim.

Ryan Sternagel: Oh, I’m jealous! At one time, I called myself a triathlete. Maybe that time will come again when I get a little more time. Swimming—I was a pretty natural swimmer for not doing much of it, pretty good in the water.

I told myself I was going to do the cold plunge thing this year. We have horses and donkeys and stuff, and we had an extra trough, so I put it out behind my house. Usually, we don’t snow-blow behind the house, but this year I said, “I’m going to snow-blow back there, that’s where the trough will be.” Then, a month later, there’s eight feet of snow behind the house! There was no way I was going to blow all that back out. The trough is slowly making its way out of being buried. Maybe I’ll have better luck next year!

David Roberts: You feel like you’re literally going to die when you’re in there. But when you get out, there’s a huge dopamine rush, and you feel good; It’s that kind of thing.

Ryan Sternagel: I get it. If nothing else, I’ve got the 10-minute kettlebell workout that I do before the day takes over. Then usually, the day taking over looks like 50 minutes of this—talking—and then I’ll jump on the vibration plate, lift weights, and do as much vibration stuff as I can.

David Roberts: Do you have the whole body vibration, like the Power Plate?

Ryan Sternagel: Yeah, the whole body vibration, Power Plate. You stand on it, and it makes whatever you’re doing more effective—you get more bang for your buck from an exercise perspective.

David Roberts: How long have you been using the Power Plate vibrations?

Ryan Sternagel: It’s been a more recent addition to the lineup of health toys, but a year and a half or so. Mostly, we got it for my son because everything we do is from a chronic condition, chronic disease, healing, and prevention perspective. But from an exercise perspective, it comes in pretty handy too.

We’re not here to talk about Power Plates, cold plunges or exercising, although it all ties in. Yes, a lot of research on cold therapy and cancer on that note.

[00:05:25] Discovering Sulforaphane: A Multi-Benefit Compound and How It Entered the Spotlight

Ryan Sternagel: We’re here to talk about sulforaphane. As I was telling you, David, before we went live—and I mentioned this in one of the emails I wrote—it wasn’t the first thing we came across after our son was diagnosed. I want to say it wasn’t until maybe three, four, or five months post-diagnosis that I found out about sulforaphane. It was largely thanks to Dr. Rhonda Patrick—I’m sure you’re familiar with her. I was listening to everyone and everything I could to get the most well-rounded opinion and figure out what to do. Dr. Rhonda was one of the people I was nerding out on early on. She’s largely responsible for getting sulforaphane into the public consciousness—that was almost 10 years ago now.

But once I did start looking into it, I realized it’s one of those things that sounds too good to be true. My German brain wants to categorize everything: “I do this for mitochondria, this for immune health, this for detoxification, this for epigenetic cellular pathways.” Then you realize sulforaphane touches all those boxes—immune, mitochondria, detox, anti-pathogenic. And you can grow it on your kitchen counter for free, nonetheless!

I am interested to hear your take on the differences between broccoli sprouts, the old form of supplement, the new stabilized sulforaphane supplement you have, and all that. David, how do you first introduce sulforaphane to people? I mean, you started a company around it, so you must really believe in it.

[00:07:46] The Journey Behind Stabilized Sulforaphane: A Personal Mission and Groundbreaking Discovery

David Roberts: I shared this when we first got on, and I thought we were live—but we weren’t. The story of how More Labs came about… my wife passed away in 2017, but she was diagnosed in 2012. Around 2014 or so, the cancer had spread some. We’d been doing what I call the “shotgun approach,” but we wanted to try something more personalized. So, we grew her cancer cells in the lab and had a live cell culture that we put 60 different supplements on. Sulforaphane was the third best at killing her type of cancer.

But when I went out to buy it, I found that all the broccoli supplements had the precursor molecule—some people call it sulforaphane glucosinolate, which is the precursor of sulforaphane. That precursor doesn’t give you the benefits you read about with sulforaphane. So, we ended up growing lots of broccoli sprouts. She would make juice from them every day—about four to six ounces of juice from sprouts.

Anyway, we had a one- and three-year-old at the time, and that was a pretty big operation to manage. One of my friends and I were at dinner, and I said, “It sure would be nice if there was a stable form of sulforaphane that we could put in a capsule.” Literally, three years later, he said, “I stabilized it.” And we were like, “What?” We tested it, and sure enough, he had stabilized it. My wife Mara said, “We’ve got to get this out there; this is a game-changer.” She knew the literature inside and out. We raised seed money, but then she took a turn for the worse and passed away shortly after that.

After she died, I was left with some companies I’d co-founded, like Restore, now Ion. I ended up starting this company in her honor and memory, so folks can maintain their health, see their kids grow up, graduate high school, and get married—we have a multi-generational view of our mission. That’s how we came to do this.

Ryan Sternagel: I’m sure she’s quite happy with the work you’ve done so far, David. And just to triple underline this for folks—everyone knows about the Restore, now IonBiome products, that you helped create. Now you’re onto the next world-changing product, which is amazing. That Restore product changed and continues to change so many people’s health positively. I guess you’ve got an eye for the important things!

David Roberts: That’s interesting. Dr. Zach Bush gave Mara a bottle of something without a label. I was like, “What is this?” We ended up taking it to my friend, John Gilday, who was the one who stabilized sulforaphane. I told him, “Make sure this isn’t going to kill her.” We didn’t know what it was. He’s the one who found out it was actually a lifesaver. That’s how we formed the company around it. Right place, right time.

Ryan Sternagel: Please don’t take anything you hear as medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. I’m not a doctor, and I don’t think David is either. We’re just a couple of guys who like talking about health stuff.

There will be a replay available, and the link you used to sign up for this becomes the replay link. We’ll also send replay emails and all that fun stuff.

David, how do you usually start talking about sulforaphane? I could ask you about each different benefit, but it’s one of those things where it’s hard to know where to begin. You talk about it for a living now—how do you usually start?

[00:13:22] Understanding Sulforaphane Supplements: Myths, Mislabeling, and Its Powerful Health Benefits

David Roberts: The most important thing and what most people don’t understand is that 90% of the supplements on the market do not contain sulforaphane. I’ve seen probably a half dozen to a dozen that claim they have sulforaphane on the label, which is legal, but if you ask for their certificate of analysis, it’s glucoraphanin, not sulforaphane.

There are only two supplements that contain sulforaphane: one from broccoli and another from France called Prostaphane, which is chemically derived through solvents or naturally derived through water extraction. Those are the only two supplements with sulforaphane in the capsule.

Another thing people say is that your gut bacteria can convert glucoraphanin into sulforaphane, but…

Ryan Sternagel: Just to be clear, when we were growing broccoli sprouts, juicing them, and all that, I was also looking for sulforaphane products. Here’s the million-dollar question, David. I say “sulforophane,” but you say “sulforaphane.” Have I been saying it wrong all these years?

David Roberts: No, I say it about 12 different ways depending on who I’m talking to! My social media person is trying to get me to say it one way—valid sulforaphane. We have a little video on Instagram where people who work for me try to say it, and everyone says it differently. I just try to say it quickly so that this this doesn’t come up.

Ryan Sternagel: That was the thing with the supplements available at the time—it was glucoraphanin and myrosinase, right? The idea was that if you took them together, your gut would produce sulforaphane. But you’re saying that’s not true?

David Roberts: That’s not true. First of all, myrosinase is an enzyme, and it’s not stable. It’s more of a marketing ploy than anything. Nine times out of 10, the myrosinase will be degraded by the time you buy the bottle. And even if it isn’t, your stomach acid will degrade it because it breaks down proteins. There’s very little chance that any of it will survive.

We’ve tried to do this naturally, and there are studies on it. There’s one study on a supplement I won’t name because they tried to sue us, but it’s a Hopkins study, and it shows that the combination doesn’t work. It’s one of the more popular supplements out there. The amount of sulforaphane you get from taking a glucoraphanin supplement is very tiny, even if you take a huge dose.

There’s another study comparing glucoraphanin to sprouted broccoli sprouts, and the sprouts are far superior. It’s a study that measures blood plasma, and neither of those amounts is enough to activate the NRF2 pathway. The NRF2 pathway is responsible for a lot of the benefits we read about, like phase two detoxification and the antioxidant response element. That system turns on about 200 different antioxidants, and it stays on for 72 hours with just one dose. It’s superior to taking an antioxidant like vitamin C.

If you’re familiar with SelfHacked, they used to have a page called “37 Pro-Health Mechanisms of Sulforaphane,” and they’re all backed by science; I think we’ve found 38 mechanisms now. If it sounds too good to be true, it often is—but this is one of those rare cases where it’s not. We can’t talk about all the mechanisms, so we usually focus on three main ones to avoid sounding like we’re talking about snake oil, but sulforaphane does a lot.

[00:19:10] Sulforaphane and Detoxification: Understanding Its Role in Complete Detox and Benzene Studies

Ryan Sternagel: One of the things Rhonda Patrick hammered on early was the benzene studies, about the before and after…

David Roberts: Yeah, that Hopkins study in Beijing or one of the big Chinese cities…

Ryan Sternagel: Everyone’s breathing in benzene there.

David Roberts: Exactly. With a lot of those Hopkins studies, what they’re doing is creating a broccoli sprout beverage. They grind up the broccoli sprouts, add myrosinase to make sure the glucoraphanin gets converted to sulforaphane, and then measure it; It’s very well tested.

But here’s the thing—those broccoli sprouts have about nine or ten other isothiocyanates, which are cousin molecules to sulforaphane, and they all work in synergy. If you only have glucoraphanin or sulforaphane, like what Prostaphane does, you’re not getting that synergistic benefit, which is how the NRF2 pathway turns on. Our capsule contains all the isothiocyanates from the plant, and we also add one called phenethyl isothiocyanate from watercress. That gives it about three times the benefit compared to just the ones in broccoli.

In that study, what they gave participants was this broccoli sprout beverage, where they knew exactly how much sulforaphane and other compounds were present. They measured a significant amount of benzene in these people’s urine, which showed that sulforaphane was facilitating detoxification—specifically, phase two detoxification.

Sulforaphane works across all three phases of detox. Phase one makes the toxin less toxic, phase two makes it water-soluble, and phase three binds and extracts it. In this study, they were peeing it out. Sulforaphane is a complete detoxifier. People talk about detox programs, but sulforaphane is interesting because it slows down phase one detox, which is important. If you hear about the “detox flu,” that’s because phase one is going too fast, and people are overloaded with toxins. Sulforaphane slows down phase one and speeds up phase two, making it a more balanced detox.

[00:22:19] Stabilized Sulforaphane: Combining Whole-Food Benefits with Advanced Supplementation

Ryan Sternagel: Ah, the old Herxheimer reaction! That’s interesting because we were definitely throwing the kitchen sink at Ryder from a detox perspective, and we never experienced anything like that. Maybe it was because we were so diligent about our broccoli sprouts and sulforaphane. That’s really interesting.

Two questions I had following up on that. First, I’m glad you brought this up because when I first heard about you guys, it seemed like one of those curcumin isolate vs. whole-food turmeric arguments. The other products have the precursor, which seems more like a whole-food-based supplement, versus this stabilized sulforaphane molecule, which seems more like the isolated route. But you’re delivering the best of both worlds, right? That’s what you’re saying about the whole-food perspective?

David Roberts: Yes, I think ours is most analogous to what you read about in the studies because we include the other molecules as well.

[00:23:52] Comparing Sulforaphane and Glutathione for Detox: NRF2 Activation and Lasting Benefits

Ryan Sternagel: When we talk about detoxification, how would you compare sulforaphane to something like a straight glutathione supplement? It seems like sulforaphane might be a step above glutathione because it upregulates your own glutathione production.

I’ve never been a fan of taking straight glutathione, especially from an active cancer perspective; There’s conflicting information and research about whether that’s a good idea. But in terms of detoxification benefits, how do you compare sulforaphane to glutathione? I think when people think of upregulating detox pathways, their minds often go straight to glutathione. How do sulforaphane and glutathione compare?

David Roberts: I’d say a lot of people aren’t taking glutathione properly. I think it’s different now with some liposomal forms that get through, but if you’re taking a glutathione capsule, it’s going to be degraded in your gut by stomach acid. Glutathione is made up of three peptides, and they break down. You have to make sure you’re taking the right type. As you mentioned, the NRF2 activation upregulates glutathione production. We’ve shown this in studies, and it stays active for longer. That might be a better option for people serious about detox.

[00:26:06] Glyphosate’s Impact on NRF2 Activation and How Broccoli Can Help Counteract It

David Roberts: Interestingly, one of our main concerns is glyphosate, the active ingredient in Roundup. We found that if you consume the amount of glyphosate you typically get in a meal, depending on what you eat, it can reduce your NRF2 activation by 30%.

Ryan Sternagel: A glyphosate-laden meal reduces your NRF2 activation by 30-32%? Wow.

David Roberts: Yes, 30%. What that means from a health perspective is significant because NRF2 is present in every cell of your body, and phase two detoxification happens in every cell. If NRF2 activation is reduced by that much, it’s essentially off, meaning your body will struggle to detox itself. We call glyphosate the “mother of all toxins” because it makes other toxins more toxic by preventing your body from getting rid of them.

The cool thing is, if you take broccoli, it brings NRF2 activation back up. Not that I’m saying you should eat a high-glyphosate meal and then take broccoli…

Ryan Sternagel: Take your Restore ION Biome before and your broccoli after, and you can eat whatever you want, says David Roberts.

David Roberts: I’m not saying that! Please don’t do that. And I’m also not saying to substitute your whole-food broccoli for a capsule. You’d have to eat about five pounds of mature broccoli to get the amount of sulforaphane in one serving of our product, which most people don’t want to do. It’s important to note that we’re micro-dosed with glyphosate all the time, even in organic foods—it’s everywhere.

[00:28:24] Heavy Metal Detox: Comparing Sulforaphane to Other Detox Methods Like EDTA and Cilantro

Ryan Sternagel: It’s been a while since I looked at this, but we were obviously focused on benzene detox, but talking about detox pathways overall, I suppose this applies to heavy metals too, right?

David Roberts: Yes, it does. Mercury, aluminum—there are papers on most of the metals.

Ryan Sternagel: This is an interesting time for this webinar because we recently did one on a topical EDTA solution. Instead of going to your integrative practitioner and paying $300 for IV EDTA chelation, you can use this topical product at home for a fraction of the price; I’m pretty excited about it. But it’s interesting because it’s a different aspect of detoxification—binding to stuff floating around or lodged in you and pulling it out that way. What we’re talking about here is upregulating your body’s inherent mechanism to say, “Hey, this stuff doesn’t belong here, let’s get rid of it.”

David Roberts: Exactly. I also wrote a blog on another detox method. One of our favorite older papers talks about juicing cilantro and taking it with broken-cell chlorella. It’s a good detox method too, though I think that’s more phase three.

[00:30:22] Sulforaphane’s Anti-Inflammatory and Antioxidant Power: Addressing Inflammation and Oxidation Naturally

Ryan Sternagel: What about anti-inflammatory benefits?

David Roberts: That’s what people notice the most. Very few people go around saying, “I feel less toxic today.” But what people do notice is their joints feeling better. When we first gave out the capsules to our team, I noticed I was having trouble playing guitar because I had pain in my hands. I could only play for about two minutes. But after taking the capsules, that pain was gone.

A question that kept coming up was, “How quickly does it work? It seems fast.” So we did an internal study, and we looked at IL-6 levels in urine, which is downstream from inflammation. What we showed was that one capsule—10 milligrams—dropped IL-6 by 30% in 24 hours. That’s enough for people to feel the difference.

Sulforaphane works well against inflammation, in part because of the antioxidant response element. It’s similar to curcumin in upregulating or downregulating NF-kappa B, which is the holy grail of anti-inflammatory pathways. That’s what all the pharmaceutical companies are targeting with their anti-inflammatory drugs, and sulforaphane works with that same pathway. In our IL-6 study, we showed that it drops inflammation quickly.

Ryan Sternagel: That’s one of those things that sounds too good to be true—it works on inflammation, but it’s also addressing the causes of inflammation at the same time between the antioxidant capability and the detoxification capacity, it’s doing a lot. We didn’t really dive into the antioxidant aspect—you mentioned it briefly—but it’s not an antioxidant per se. This molecule doesn’t have an ORAC score and isn’t going around mopping up free radicals directly. Instead, it’s upregulating your body’s capacity to produce antioxidants and quench free radicals, right?

David Roberts: Yes, exactly. If you think about taking vitamin C, that’s an antioxidant—one vitamin C molecule can negate one oxidant. With sulforaphane and NRF2 being turned on, it activates a system of antioxidants. That system produces over 200 distinct antioxidants, and it stays active for 72 hours with just one serving.

What’s amazing is that this system stays on, and because so many different types of antioxidants are created, it does a great job of mopping up oxidants. I like to think of oxidation like rust—just as iron oxidizes and rusts, the same kind of thing happens inside your body. You’re “rusting” on the inside, and that’s why it’s so important to address oxidation.

Ryan Sternagel: You don’t want to be rusting on the inside—that doesn’t sound good!

David Roberts: No, definitely not!

[00:34:50] Sulforaphane and Brain Health: Boosting BDNF and Enhancing Dream Activity

Ryan Sternagel: Were you about to say something about brain health before I cut you off with the inflammation discussion?

David Roberts: Yes, I was. Inflammation is something people can feel the effects of pretty quickly. Before we had a customer service team, I was the customer service team. I’d be answering questions and processing refunds. When someone said it wasn’t working for them, I’d ask, “Have you noticed any vivid dreams since you’ve been taking it?” And they’d say, “No, are you serious?”

What’s responsible for that is something called brain-derived neurotrophic factor (BDNF). Sulforaphane increases BDNF, which is important for brain health. It preserves existing neurons and helps grow new ones. Not everyone will experience vivid dreams, but one of our first chemists—a 6’8” basketball player from Brazil—was measuring sulforaphane content in every batch. He came in one day and said, “Dude, we shouldn’t be a supplement company, we should be a dream company!” He and his roommate would always wake up and talk about their vivid dreams over coffee.

So yes, brain health is an important area where sulforaphane does a good job.

Ryan Sternagel: That’s really interesting. A couple of the cancer doctors I follow make a big deal about making sure their patients are dreaming. They talk about connections to the spirit world, processing emotions, and other things—we don’t know exactly what’s going on there, but it seems to be important. I’m going to have to do my little experiment—stop taking sulforaphane for a couple of weeks and see what happens with my dreams.

[00:37:50] Sulforaphane’s Anti-Pathogenic Properties: Antibacterial and Antifungal Effects

Ryan Sternagel: I hadn’t come across this until I was refreshing myself on sulforaphane while preparing for this, but there seems to be a lot of anti-pathogenic research out there as well. What’s the mechanism behind that? Is sulforaphane directly killing pathogens, or is it upregulating the body’s ability to kill them? I didn’t have time to dive too deep into that.

David Roberts: When it comes to bacteria, sulforaphane is antibacterial, though it doesn’t kill all bacteria. If you’re taking glucoraphanin and it’s being converted into sulforaphane in your colon, you have to ask yourself: is that where you want sulforaphane produced? Because it’s antibacterial. If you take our capsule or sprouts, you’re getting absorption in the small intestine instead.

There’s a well-known paper on H. pylori and sulforaphane—it’s a pretty popular one. Outside of its direct antibiotic properties, I’m not entirely sure of the exact mechanism, but I do know it’s antifungal as well.

[00:39:24] Sulforaphane and Cancer Research: Exploring the Science and PubMed Studies

Ryan Sternagel: Lastly, or at least the last big thing on my list, is that you mentioned you tested sulforaphane directly against your wife’s cancer cell lines; It was one of the top compounds that were directly killing those cancer cells. You can hop on PubMed, and type in “sulforaphane cancer,” and I think there are close to 1,400 studies now about sulforaphane and cancer. I don’t know how much you can or can’t say as the guy making the product, but what can you share in that regard?

David Roberts: I can say, go to PubMed, type in those two words, and that would be a better exercise than me telling you.

Ryan Sternagel: With a lot of these food-based molecules, you can talk about them all day, but going to PubMed and scrolling through the studies is probably the best way.

David Roberts: Exactly. In fact, I’d recommend doing that with anything you’re interested in. If it’s brain health, type in “sulforaphane” and “neurodegenerative states.” If you’re worried about cardio issues, type in “sulforaphane” and “cardiovascular health.” There are so many papers out there—it’s impressive. We haven’t written any of them; all we do is ensure that we have sulforaphane in the capsule.

Ryan Sternagel: Which is a big deal, apparently. The more studies that come out, the more it shows that it’s working and that researchers are picking up on it, exploring different aspects. You start to get that snowball effect, which has been pretty cool to watch over the past several years.

David Roberts: Absolutely. There’s a whole center at Johns Hopkins University called the Chemoprotection Institute. They used to have a large broccoli sprout-growing operation that provided sulforaphane for many studies. I don’t think they do that anymore, but the center is still there, and it’s centered around sulforaphane. It’s an important molecule that does a lot.

[00:42:36] Should Sulforaphane Be Taken Daily or Cycled? Navigating Long-Term Use and Detox Needs

Ryan Sternagel: You might be the least trustworthy guy to ask this since you make the product, but I’m curious: when it comes to nutritional stuff, there’s the philosophy of rotating through things. Some say you shouldn’t take curcumin forever because your body might get used to it, or cancer cells might adapt, and it’ll lose its effectiveness; You rotate in and out of different bioflavonoids and so on. I want to say that sulforaphane might be different, but I’ve never asked anyone who’s thought about this. Is sulforaphane something you should rotate on and off, or should it be part of your daily routine?

David Roberts: That question comes up periodically—it even came up this week in our team meeting. First of all, there’s no definitive paper showing one way or the other. So, the bottom line is: we don’t know; That’s the caveat.

But, given the toxic world we live in—our skin touches couches with flame retardants, the air we breathe is polluted (though not as bad as China), and even the water we drink—unless you have a filter, municipal water can still contain toxins. In Charlottesville, we have good municipal water, but if you do a vertical count, it’s still around 200 parts per million of something. When you go out to eat, you’re likely getting exposed to glyphosate. All of this points to the idea that if you’re using sulforaphane for detox or are concerned about these things, you may want to stay on it.

If you’re worried that taking it long-term might cause it to lose effectiveness, I don’t know the answer because there’s no study on that. We do internal studies, but we don’t publish them because publishers see it as a conflict of interest since we make the product. If you’re concerned, you can always rotate off for a couple of weeks and see what happens. Maybe your dreams change, who knows? If you’re worried about it being negative, you can rotate off and then go back on. But again, there’s no study indicating that staying on sulforaphane is harmful.

Ryan Sternagel: It seems like you’d want these systems upregulated all the time. Let’s jump into some audience questions.

David Roberts: For folks who are on the fence, I’m a firm believer in unconditional money-back guarantees. As much as we know it works, everybody’s different. If it doesn’t work for you, we’ll refund you. We offer a 100-day, 100% money-back guarantee. We do that because we want people to try it, knowing how good it is. If it doesn’t work, we’ll refund you.

[00:46:57] Sulforaphane Shelf Life: Storage Tips for Maintaining Potency Over Time

Ryan Sternagel: A good question from Rhonda: “How long can these bottles sit on the shelf?”

David Roberts: It’s good for a year. We list 5 milligrams of sulforaphane on the capsule, and after a year, it’ll still have sulforaphane, but it’ll go down to about 4 milligrams, which is still within legal limits. It’s not stable forever, but without our process, it would only be stable for a couple of weeks—maybe a week—before degrading.

Ryan Sternagel: So after a year, it would go down to 4 milligrams?

David Roberts: Yes, it goes from 5 to 4 milligrams after a year at room temperature. If it’s stored in heat, it might degrade a little more. But if it’s kept in the fridge or freezer, it’ll stay stable for years. We’ve tested a year in the fridge with no degradation.

Ryan Sternagel: So, if you think you’ll hold onto them for longer than a year, just throw them in the fridge or freezer.

[00:48:32] How Heat and Moisture Affect Sulforaphane: Tips for Cooking and Storage

Ryan Sternagel: That leads to another question. I guess we’re talking about broccoli or broccoli sprouts: “How does heat or cooking affect sulforaphane?”

David Roberts: You have to keep it under 157 degrees Fahrenheit. If you have a head of broccoli and start chewing it, there’s myrosinase in the cell wall, which will help convert glucoraphanin to sulforaphane. But if you cook it above 157 degrees, the sulforaphane goes away. Moisture can also degrade sulforaphane, so keep the desiccants in your bottles and keep them closed to avoid moisture.

Ryan Sternagel: So if you’re cooking broccoli, do it for the taste, not for the sulforaphane!

[00:49:40] Maximizing Sulforaphane in Broccoli Sprouts: Best Harvest Time and Seed Quality Concerns

Ryan Sternagel: “When you’re growing sprouts, what’s the best day to harvest for maximum sulforaphane?”

David Roberts: They say day three is best, but when I was doing it, the sprouts were so tiny at day three that I would usually wait until day four or five.

In 2019, we did a study where we bought five different brands of organic broccoli seeds from Amazon, looking for a source of seeds. Four out of the five didn’t have glucoraphanin or the ability to make sulforaphane, which was shocking. We repeated the study a year later with seven brands, and six out of the seven could make sulforaphane, but one didn’t—despite being a popular brand.

We’re not a seed company, but if you’re concerned about the quality of the seeds, we do offer seeds for sale that we know contain sulforaphane. We offer half-pound bags of broccoli seeds, which come out to about 400 milligrams of sulforaphane.

Ryan Sternagel: I’ve never heard this before! So, it’s not that the seeds were fake—they would still grow a broccoli plant, but they didn’t have the sulforaphane in them for some reason?

David Roberts: That’s correct. It’s a strange finding, but it’s what we discovered. We haven’t tested it since 2020, so maybe that’s something we should do every year. But at that point, we decided to offer seeds as a service.

Ryan Sternagel: I was going to say I’ll continue making my sprouts and taking my broccoli, but I guess I’ll continue to make my sprouts and probably get the seeds from you.

David Roberts: That’s the main takeaway. That’s why I brought it up. We’re not really a seed company—it’s just something we offer as a supplement company.

Ryan Sternagel: I get it. Is that option on the main Mara Labs website? I’ve never noticed it. I’ll check it out.

David Roberts: It’s there, but it’s way at the bottom.

[00:52:57] Sulforaphane vs. DIM for Estrogen Dominance: Understanding Their Different Roles

Ryan Sternagel: Next question: “Preventing estrogen dominance and recurrence—DIM versus sulforaphane. Do you have any thoughts on the other popular isothiocyanate?” And then there’s a question about indole-3-carbinol.

David Roberts: They’re related. Indole-3-carbinol degrades into DIM, and DIM is one of those compounds. Who was the vitamin C guy who won the Nobel Prize? Linus Pauling. The Linus Pauling Institute explains this better than I do, so I’d suggest checking them out.

Anyway, DIM is great—better than sulforaphane for estrogen metabolism. I do have a blog on the Mara Labs website about how sulforaphane works in estrogen dominance, and they do work differently. But if you’re focused on estrogen dominance, I’d suggest DIM.

Ryan Sternagel: From a pure estrogen dominance perspective, good to know.

[00:54:18] Zeolite and Other Detox Methods: Importance of Clean Sources and Covering All Bases

Ryan Sternagel: How would you rate zeolite in removing toxins? Going back to the different mechanisms—like with the EDTA webinar we did, where EDTA pulls stuff out versus upregulating your body’s detox pathways—how do you see it? We try to cover all the bases here and do everything, but do you have anything to add, David?

David Roberts: I’d be careful about your source. If there’s a study showing a positive outcome with a specific zeolite, or if a company has internal research that you find trustworthy, that’s worth considering. But not all zeolites are the same—not by a long shot.

Ryan Sternagel: That’s true for a lot of earth-derived molecules that are good at mopping up toxicants; They’re great at mopping up toxins, but the earth itself is polluted, so that’s a big concern—especially with zeolites. It’s a great molecule, though. The same goes for apple pectin, fulvic acid, and humic acid. All good stuff for detox, as long as you’re getting it from a clean source. Bottom line: what do we do? Juice broccoli sprouts, take sulforaphane, and do a million other health things!

David Roberts: In terms of what we’ve been talking about, I’d say give broccoli sprouts a try. I’ll go out on a limb and say that! And again, we guarantee the product.

[00:56:24] Capsules vs. Liquid Sulforaphane: Dosage, PITC Synergy, and Tolerability

Ryan Sternagel: Did we address whether a capsule or a liquid is better? Is there even a liquid option?

David Roberts: We have a liquid version because some people prefer that option, but it’s perhaps the nastiest thing you’ll ever put in your mouth. A tablespoon of the liquid gives you 30 milligrams of sulforaphane, but it doesn’t contain PITC. While the liquid has more sulforaphane per serving, from my perspective, the capsules are better because you don’t taste them, and you’re also getting PITC, which provides about three times the effect.

Ryan Sternagel: Sorry, what is PITC again?

David Roberts: PITC stands for phenethyl isothiocyanate, a cousin molecule to sulforaphane that comes from watercress. There are a couple of studies showing that when you combine PITC with sulforaphane, they have a synergistic effect. Normally, an additive effect would be 1 + 1 = 2, but with synergy, it’s more like 1 + 1 = 3, or even 1 + 1 = 5. That’s why we call it “Broccoli Plus”—the “plus” is PITC. We added it to create a powerful NRF2 activator.

However, it is strong, and not everyone can tolerate it. That’s why we have a kid’s version with half the amount of sulforaphane (2.5 milligrams per capsule) and no PITC. This version is for younger kids or adults who can’t tolerate the stronger version because it can cause nausea. We tell people to eat before taking it or drink a glass of milk—don’t take it on an empty stomach. If it’s too strong for you, you can start with the kid’s version, titrate up, and then switch to the “Plus” version.

[00:59:25] Taking Sulforaphane: Food, Nausea, and Adjusting Dosage for Tolerability

Ryan Sternagel: Let me ask it this way: “Does it need to be taken with food for the full effect, or can it be taken on an empty stomach?”

David Roberts:  From an absorption standpoint, you can take it with or without food—it doesn’t matter for the full effect. But in terms of nausea, it’s better to take it with food. If you take it on an empty stomach, you’ll probably get a hot flash and feel like you’re going to throw up. That usually only happens in the first few weeks or the first month, and then you grow out of it. In the literature, most studies have participants take the broccoli sprout beverages with food, and many of the adverse effects—like nausea—are minimized that way.

Ryan Sternagel: Can you open the capsule if it’s too strong?

David Roberts: Yes, you can open the capsule. The whole point of the capsule is so you don’t have to taste it, but if you need to start with half a capsule, you can mix it with something citrusy like lime juice or a little orange juice, and maybe add a packet of stevia. For some reason, citrus helps cut the unpleasant taste.

Ryan Sternagel: So it doesn’t taste like a good piece of broccoli?

David Roberts: Definitely not!

[00:01:37] Expanding Beyond Sulforaphane: Addressing Bioavailability with Curcumin, Quercetin, and More

Ryan Sternagel: All right, David. Everybody, I don’t know how to say it strongly enough: this is one of my favorite molecules of all time because it does so much. I’m glad, David, that you confirmed what I figured—that your stabilized sulforaphane is better than the precursor stuff we’d been taking in the past.

David Roberts: Sulforaphane is our hero product—Broccoli Plus—but because of where we came from with Mara’s cancer and the bioavailability issues with amazing molecules like curcumin, we’ve expanded. You read these papers and think, “This is amazing,” but how do you make sure when you take something, it actually gets to your cells and does what it’s supposed to do?

Most of our other supplements are lipid soluble, meaning they’re fat-soluble, like curcumin, berberine, resveratrol, quercetin, and more. We’re coming out with EGCG soon. We focus on bioavailability—making sure enough of the active ingredients get through your gut barrier so they can do their job.

Ryan Sternagel: I’ve been impressed with your curcumin and berberine products. I didn’t know you added resveratrol and quercetin to the lineup. There they are! That’s exciting, David. I’m happy to know you’re on the case with all these things, especially since bioavailability and absorption are such big issues with these compounds.

David Roberts: Absolutely. And if you or your family deal with allergies, with spring coming (I know it’s still snowy up there, but eventually spring will come), the quercetin is amazing for seasonal issues. We’ll send you some.

Ryan Sternagel: That’d be great. I married a horse girl, and I’m allergic to hay and horses, so I’ve got allergies year-round!

[01:04:19] Testing for Detox Progress: Recommendations for Monitoring and Microbiome Checks

Ryan Sternagel: What tests should we get done pre- and post-treatment to monitor progress, especially when talking about detoxification? There are tons of different labs out there that measure chemicals, heavy metals, and things like that. I usually recommend asking whatever integrative or holistic practitioner you’re working with, but do you have any direct-to-consumer testing companies you like?

David Roberts: For detox, not specifically. But I like to check in on my microbiome periodically—probably annually. There’s a company I use… let me look real quick. It used to be called Thrive, but they changed the name…

[01:05:55] Lab Tests, Oxalates, and Future Conversations on Health Molecules

Ryan Sternagel: Is there any concern about oxalates? What if you have high oxalates?

David Roberts: That’s a good question. I’m not sure about that, specifically—about detoxing from high oxalates. Is that what the question is?

Ryan Sternagel: The question was, what if you have high oxalates?

David Roberts: Oh, okay. So, there’s a reasonably priced gut health test from a company called Ombre—O-M-B-R-E.

Ryan Sternagel: Ombre?

David Roberts: Yeah, Ombre. It’s one I use. Then there’s GrimAge if you’re looking to check your biological age versus your calendar age. I did one of those Clock Foundation tests, it’s a $300 test. Those are a couple of things I’ve done.

Ryan Sternagel: Someone’s at checkout and doesn’t have PayPal or any of the other three payment methods. Can they put in a Visa number somehow?

David Roberts: It definitely takes Visa.

Ryan Sternagel: I think maybe you need to fill out the shipping info first, and then once you get through that, it’ll ask for your card. That’s how it works.

Ryan Sternagel: Jillian, for any cancer-related questions, as we talked about earlier, go to PubMed and type in “multiple myeloma sulforaphane” and see what comes up.

David Roberts: Or even EGCG—that’s another good one to look up for that.

Ryan Sternagel: That’d be a good one too. Well, David, it looks like we’ve answered all the questions and covered everything. Any final words of wisdom to take us out?

David Roberts: Thanks for having me on. It’s been a great conversation, and maybe as your schedule opens up, we can chat again about one of these other molecules.

Ryan Sternagel: I’d welcome that conversation!

David Roberts: Cool. Enjoy Park City!

Ryan Sternagel: We do every day. All right, everybody, thanks for coming out.

David Roberts: Bye-bye.